Tejanos in the civil war

[RFG|LBG]

Well, since Flip proposed a Irish unit, why not a Tejano unit? ;D

www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/MM/pom2.html

www.latinamericanstudies.org/mexicans-civil-war.htm

www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/BB/fbe47.html

alot of Mexican americans fought for the Union and Conf.
Altho these unit where poorly armed, they never lacked bravery, and exceled in many battles during this war.

Many of these men saw action at Virginia and fought in the battles of Gaines' Mill, Second Bull Run, Antietam, Fredericksburg, Gettysburg, the Wilderness, and Appomattox Court House.

So i propose a Tejano unit(or maybe it could be named something else). High in moral, but poorly armed.

LBG

[flippyxtrem]

Hmm that sounds cool

very interesting to, to read

thx LBG

Cheers

[RFG|LBG]

Hello? anytakers? what u guys think?

LBG

[[GG]Lord von Döbeln]

Sounds good to me!

[GG]Lord vD

[flippyxtrem]

Did the Latin Americans during the American Civil War form there own racial Brigades?

Just like the Irish, French, Italian, German etc did?

Or were the Latin American Soldiers scattered through different regiments or brigades?

Cheers

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

Nice research, LBG:) I know it is a matter close to your heart! Personally I dont know of any all Latin units, and since this has to be handled unit by unit, it might be hard to incorporate, but if we can find a way to make it work, we can do it:)

And btw Flip, I forgot about the Italians! Garabaldi Guard, here we come!

Ash

[flippyxtrem]

was it not the French and Italians who made up of most of the Zouave Regiments?

the Garabaldi Guard was a single regiment called the 39th New York "Volunteers"

Not at all there own Brigade, however I must know this, Ashram how many "unique" units do you plan to implement into this mod for North and South.

I remember you saying 5 on skype, however you might have changed your mind due to the great variety of legendary units during this war.

but, if your answer is still 5, I think it would be a waste to have a single regiment be a unique unit for there are whole Brigades of infantrymen who deserve there place in those 5 slots.

I would suggest this

Lets make a higher number of "unique" units other than 5, personally I would love to see the 39th New York on the field..so I beg you, let us have more "unique units". I know it is more work and more time to modd...however...isnt that waht we want to do?

much regards

-FlippyXtrem

Cheers

[RFG|LBG]

Did the Latin Americans during the American Civil War form there own racial Brigades?

Yes. Dureing this time, not many anglos went west due to the cival war, and the Majority of people living in the west dureing this time where Mexicans Americans. And many saw oppertunities to join one side or the other, since their mother country Mexico was not their soverign nation no more.

Qoute from one of the links above:

The most famous was Santos Benavides, who rose to command the Thirty-third Texas Cavalry as a colonel, and thus became the highest ranking Tejano to serve the Confederacy. Though it was ill equipped, frequently without food, and forced to march across vast expanses of South Texas and northern Mexico, the Thirty-third was never defeated in battle. (He also repulsed Mexican Bandits invading from Mexico into Texas.)

More than 300 Texas Mexicans from Refugio and Bexar counties joined the Eighth Texas Infantry.qv Two companies commanded by Joseph M. Peñaloza and José Ángel Navarroqv were almost entirely Tejano.

And other Texas Mexicans, resentful of growing non-Hispanic political dominance of their communities, enlisted in federal blue. Many joined the Union Army for the bounty money offered upon enlistment, but some enlisted because they opposed slavery or to satisfy grudges against landowners, attorneys, and politicians who had used the American legal system to take valuable land from Tejanos during the preceding decade.

So, in retrospect, yes, many where all Tejano units.


cheers
LBG

[RFG| Lord Crow]

It would be nice to see hispanics/Mexicans in the mod, the majority in the west at that time were Hispanics no? Did they out number the Irish/Italians as well?

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

No... while I appreciate LBGs research, I have never actually heard of a Latin regiment or anything in my 20 some odd years of Civil War research/wargaming/reenacting. The Irish and Italians, however, started up some of the most famous regiments in the War and were present in HUGE numbers:( Remember, we are going to be limited to about 10 or so infantry units for each side, and I have to admit I would have a hard time leaving out New Jersey Infantry or Texas Infantry (as generics) or the Irish Brigade or Iron Brigade or 1st Louisiana Tigers or the Fire Zouaves or Lee's Virginians or any of these incredibly famous regiments (as elites.) Honestly, I dont see how to incorporate a Tejano regiment, especially as the only one I have ever heard of is the cavalry regiment LBG just mentioned:) But who knows, maybe we can work something out.

Thanks for the ideas guys, keep them coming!

Ash

[RFG|LBG]

Maybe, they where not mentioned on your 20 odd some years of research because mexicans where not considered important to mention? And because most of their action was in Texas, and all of the west. and over looked by bias historians? 'cough; cough' not trying to say u are, but read, and research.

LBG

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

Ah Flip sorry I didnt see your post. For now I am just thinking 5 generics and 5 or so elites... please know that our graphics will be fairly limited, and even with just these units there would be some overlap in unit graphics. I wouldnt mind MAKING them, if we can come up with the units for them, so please suggest as many as you can and we can certainly expand if units come up that are just too cool to leave out:)

About the Zouaves, I had never heard anything about them being made up of immigrants... as far as I knew, the UNIFORMS were inspired by the French, but the units were pretty much made up of the same type of men as any unit. Maybe men with a little more money, as I think some of them had to provide their own uniforms, and the sashes and turbans and all that could be a might expensive;)

As for the Garabaldi Guard, I hadn't actually intended to use them in-game, I just was amused because I had forgotten about them entirely!

Viva l'Italia!

And LBG, if you can come up with a good example of an all Tejano regiment that is well supported by text, I would be happy to give them a look. I have studied most of the war, and I regret to say I have never seen a unit mentioned in the same breath as the Irish Brigade or anything... but again, if you can come up with an actual regiment and some record of the battles it participated in, that would be great:)

Ash

[RFG|LBG]

Look, i'm not trying to attack no one here, just that if its goin to be Historicly correct, then why not give credit to all those people involved, irish , germans, Mexicans, italians, french, Canadians, Indains ect. After all, it was a war that Involved not just white Americans, but a diverse melting pot of people.

LBG ;D

[RFG| Lord Crow]

From what little I know the Hispanics were just as 'famous' as the Irish or Italians you mentioned but overlooked and not valued. It's your mod m8 so I'm sure you will do what you think best but it would be nice to get some realism in no?

[RFG|LBG]

www.texashistory.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TW&Product_Code=HFront2

www.tamu.edu/upress/BOOKS/2004/thompson.htm

members.aol.com/historybks/ethnic.htm

www.geocities.com/leighbhi/

www.geocities.com/leighbhi/valverde.html

This is another good source. This one Talks about the New Mexicos hispanics, texas one is hard to look for, for Texas is very perjeduce against hispanics.

And dont forget those other 3 above on my first post.
LBG