Guard Limitation

[[GG]Buxford]

I believe there should be a limit of Guard units (ie Old Guard, Russian Guard, British Guard, etc). I mean, come on, how realistic is it when a person buys 4 units of Old Guard, 4 units of Middle guard, etc. It's very unfair to those opposing you. I've actually lost battles because my opponents had many guard units.

What say you?

[KHD|HitmanM4]

A maximum of 4 guard units per army (full 16 units) seems fair in my opinion. In historical terms a British battalion consisted of ten companies of which one or two were light or guard. So 4 guard units per army still may seem a tad unrealistic.

[HG|Lord Shand]

I totally agree!

I also think a limit to "Elite" units should be imposed too. However when we are done with the new stats, hopefully the price changes will limit the amount of elite/guard units a player will be able to take

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

The moment I get the campaign registration going, I can take a few minutes and put together a gradiated by points/number of units Historical List for a few of the armies. If we can establish, as I said, a Guards Standard list (or whatever the name could be;)) that reflects history and redresses the balance of guard, light, line, and cav, we would be well served as a community.

Ash

[flippyxtrem]

I agree ...

however I see us all buying 4 guards all the time anyways...I do...but ive considered this and now ive dropped to 3 guards an army...and it makes a difference....trust me

but ya Ash...the campaign is definetly going to be balanced and challenging and histrorical...we aint gonna have no four young guard, four middle guard, and four old guard armies now are we?!!?

Cheers

[[GG]AndrewKent]

I played a 1v1 with ubermonkey last night and he gave us each 10,000 francs. And I found it a lot of fun.

I've always maintained that it is more realistic (and I think more fun) to play with lower valour levels and more realistic unit mixes.

It's a reason I really enjoy the campaign games.

In the game last night, it was really close going, but ubermonkey was a good bit ahead in the kill ratio, but then I was able to flank and hit him with a good cav charge and routed his whole army off the map. WHen all the units are valour 4 you can't have this kind of result, but it is more in line with the battles of this era.

AK

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

I too have been working on taking fewer than 4 guard units standard... my typical english army is looking more and more like 3 kgl lights, 3 highlanders, 3 guards, 3 line, and then assorted hanger-ons.

How about this: If anyone has any ideas about how to put together a "Guards Standard" can you post them here?

For example:

IN AN ARMY OF 16 UNITS, YOU MUST TAKE...

At least 4 line units.

No more than 4 light units.

No more than 4 Guard units (Guards, Grenadiers, Young/Middle/Old Guard, Highlanders, etc.)

This is a very simple model; does anyone have an idea that is better/more thoughtful?

Ash

[KHD|HitmanM4]

Ash, would you say Highlanders are guard? I like to think of them more as uber line units.

[[GG]Lord von Döbeln]

IMO the Highlanders should be included in the "elite" group, i.e. with guards and grenadiers since their melee and defence bonuses together are 2 higher than for any line inf in the game, and this makes them equal to many grenadiers and guards.

[GG]vD

[[GG]Salis De Silver]

i whole heartedly agree with this thread, I find low cost armies are more realistic, and limiting Guard & Elite units can only help. I'd go one further though, Cav should include a light unit such as Hussars or Light Dragoons. Heavy cannon 12pdrs I'd restrict to mp battles. Single battles I'd banish them altogether.

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

At first I thought about limiting cav. I tended to agree with the cav thing, except that the cav really seems to serve different purposes; i.e., heavy cav is not always better than light, as light is very quick and can catch targets SO easily. There are incentives (sp?) for players to take light cav and there are reasons to take heavy cav.

However, with infantry, Guard units are simply better than line, always, at almost everything, so no one has any incentive to ever take line units unless they have to. This lends itself to abuse, as there is pretty much never a good reason to take line units when Guard units suffice.

In addition, few generals take more than three cav, so it makes cavalry less easy to exploit. Infantry, however, makes up the backbone of an army, and can at times be the ENTIRE army, which makes regulating it, I think, more important.

Anyway, in conclusion, I don't think cavalry really needs to be limited... tho I am probably wrong:)

As for arty, again, I think this tends not to be exploited, and it seems to be that the 12lbers get tired REALLY quick, which sort of balances their increased range.

Tell me your thoughts,

Ash

[[GG]Buxford]

Maybe the norm should be 3 cav units, one of each type: 1 heavy, 1 medium, and 1 light. Perhaps the host could demand this?

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

The only problem with that is that it SERIOUSLY puts a clamp on what a general can buy, which is of course one of the fun pieces of the game; customizing your army.

I would write more, but I am grading papers:)

Ash

[[GG]Buxford]

Or, perhaps, require at least one light cav unit.

:shrugs:

[[GG]Salis De Silver]

I like that