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Post by flippyxtrem on Oct 8, 2004 13:29:46 GMT -5
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
This new patch has brought nothing but pain for me...really...especially for MP
All I see is people play as the Brits, French, and Prussians.
The Brits changed alot...
they got some uber Light Infantry..like the KGL...cmon these guys have the range of a rifled unit and deal a whole lot more damage.
brit cav is now stronger to it seems...
also many of there units have boosted stats over the generic units...
The French...well...
there the same but there light infantry has some more extra range but have alot of morale and a high attack rating...
the old guard is still tough as ever and there line infantry is dead on with the brit line...
The Prussians are still okay
they are little weaker now because of all the boosted stats for the French and Brits...
BUt my main concern is how all the other factions cant even match up against any of these factions listed ontop.
Especially my Russians....
the problems with the russians is this...
They move slowly
They have no rifles
There light infantry dont have INSANE LONG RANGE as a KGL LIGHT INFANTRY DOES nor the extra range the British Lights have...nor any of the light infantry for that matter...
Also the Russian Line is nothing special...they are the same as a generic line infantry...not even a little boosted speed or a +1 for charging.
Alot of you thought the Russians were good at Hand to Hand combat...they arent...I guess I made it look that way in V3...
and thats what ticks me off...
in V3 the russians still had all these negatives I listed...but they had one advantage over the rest of the factions..there cavalry...espcially the Cossack Lancer (russian cav right now arent really that great, just good)
see since the russian army lacked in so many areas...I used what they had for an advantage...I worked with a combining charge of infantry and cossack lancers...and this made the russian infantry look like brutes..but they really arent..there nothing special at all compared to British Guards or Old Guard or the Prussian Guard...
well anyways I think the Lordz killed the MP world with there new release...
everybody knows everybody plays as the BRITS, FRENCH, or PRUSSIANS just because they have the most bad arsed units that are superior than any other faction...cmon you all know the KGL Light infantry is very unique and way powerful...or else you wouldent buy 4-5 of em for a battle...infact Ive never seen people buy so much light infantry for a MP game..usually it was 2-3 o well...for example I saw how remi with only half of his army...maybe less than that stopped a much larger force of Swedish Infantry...(the best the Swedish have) cold in there tracks and win the day...the Swedish were defending and on top of a hill...remi of course was the Brits...lol...why am I not surprised how the battle turned out?
this is just my insane ranting of what I have noticed and my severe depression on it all...im now stuck playing as the Brits, French, or Prussians...becuase if I choose anything else...I'll just mathmatically lose because my units stats are inferior to my opponents (brits, french, prussians)
Cheers
my main point is this...
every faction should have its advantages and disadvantages
the brits only negative is probably there cav...but cmon there not that bad any more...
the french? pfftt they have none
the Prussians? there stats arent as high as the brits and french but are higher than the smaller factions
I mean cmon...where do you draw the line? nobody wants to play a faction that they know is inferior...errr...
arlight im done
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Post by [GG]ThinRedLine on Oct 8, 2004 14:45:09 GMT -5
Perhaps some of these realities will encourage more control of games when being set up.
For instance attackers that will have to attack up-hill get 10,15 or even 20% more money.
Or, The Russians get more money, but don't get to take all elite cav.
Or, We play historical scenarios and allow the French less units with same/close money.
Or,.... the list goes on.
While I can understand your frustration Flippy, I must disagree with you on several points.
I have read a good deal about this era and in particular the cavalry of this era and abit beyond. British cavalry, particularly the Dragoons, matched up with other cav of this era quite well. Their biggest problem was almost always their leadership, not the quality of their mounts, their mettle or their equipment.
Yet in NTW Brit players, that want to stand a chance in the cav department, are left to always buy at least one Saxon Currasier unit. Come on!?!
I used to play Russian players who would bring 6 units of cossack lancers in a corps that only had 16 units! Come On!?! Where are the Hussars? The run of the mill cossacks?
British Light Infantry are tough in this game, as they were in history, but if I am not careful, mine get run down all the time by Prussian, French and yes, Russian Cav. In fact, i have found that that is one of the best ways to deal with them, if they are in fact not protected.
Funny thing too, I have seen many complaints about the Highlanders for v5.01. People complain as if they have taken some serious decrease in abilities. I don't think that this is the case, but I admit I need to check the stats more closely.
Bottom line, if you do not enjoy playing NTW MP then you probably shouldn't. Winning is not the most important thing, although of course we all prefer it. I think that the Russian cav is still pretty formidable, but just not as good as it used to be. Personally, I thought it was too good in v3.
However Flippy, I see where you are coming from and I just feel like I want to encourage you to try different combinations and valour values for your troops, do not rely too heavily on any one aspect of combined arms.
I hate to use an already over-used metaphor for this era of combat, but the analogy fits pretty well. Try to remember that a good Napoleonic battle is not unlike a good orchestra. You need your string section as well as your horns, you need your trianles as well as your drums and...timing is everything! (okay, I just showed my almost total ignorance of the orchestra, but you get the idea....hehe).
Flippy, you are a natural Cav leader and as such you are prone to taking risks at times. That can be a very fun way to play even if it does not always equal victory, particularly in 1v1. In games of 3v3 and 4v4 it can be an awesome way to play and can lead to glorious victory as often as it can lead to crushing defeat. I like the way you play it makes MP fun IMO.
Two of the best players that I have ever played used Ottomans and British and rarely ever used cavalry. They rarely lost because they were relatively conservative and they each had a good understanding of the morale and fatigue issues of this great game. The British player I speak of never bought Rifles and this was before KGL Lights had longer range! The Ottoman player would buy a large proportion of Raya to take advantage of their range. He could be beaten in melee but it was rare.
These guys were truly great in v3, but now, much to my satisfaction, they are merely really good in v5.01.
Anyway, I feel your pain Flippy. I have had to watch and experience a lot of newer players learn and get better if not down right good before my very eyes. This has forced me to be more conservative and to be prepared to get beaten much more often then I did 2 months ago.
Great Fun!!!
[glow=red,2,300]For Glory And Eagles![/glow]
S!
TRL
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Post by crow on Oct 9, 2004 18:44:53 GMT -5
I see your point too Flippy and TRL takes sense too. I used to have to Beta test the Poles and used to always play them in MP. True I got beat a lot but when you won it was extra special. I found you need time to get adjusted to other factions which is probably why the new members stick to the strongest but I do find the balance of power is perhaps too much in favour of the usual strong ones though. But don't despair m8 there are a few of us that like playing other factions. I think I have played more as Poles, Turks, Austrian than I have Brit, French or Prussian even though the Brits are my favourite.
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Post by [GG] Tuncarl on Oct 10, 2004 2:42:17 GMT -5
Gotta disagree on one point Flippy, Brit cav is still rubbish. You can boost them to reassonable with the right upgrades but the rest of your army misses out.
French still have the best cav, Russia has two very good units (better than brits) but the Russian Grens and Guards are still better than a lot other countries if you bear in mind their price. Yup Russia needs long range, but I still play Russia. I only ever played Brits, French and Russia in v.3 (oh and the occasional Spain) so I have not changed for v.5
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Post by flippyxtrem on Oct 10, 2004 10:21:58 GMT -5
O no need to disagree guys...I believe that the Brit cav is still crappy in this game..however you gotta admit that they are better...because of the Saxon Currisaier...last version they dident have them...but now they seem to help out alot...
O trust me I know my russians and yes the Guards have good stats in there Charge and Morale and the Grens have a decent Charge and attack rating...however this doesnt cut it while they are attacking or defending from KGL Lights supported by KGL Line or British Line....there just gonna get smoked...plus the Russian Guards and Grens move just as fast and the Generic Line Infantry...which plays a big role in there disadvantage...because that KGL Light infantry for example is gonna rip down my boys before they can even fire a shot...and Dont tell me to charge with cav at the lights...because that works only 10% of the time...because if the Brit commander is smart...he'll just have that Line infantry behind them ready to support....the Charge would be folly..and a waste of some good cav units...so Like I said..WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE? you know?
O GOD...just forget...
IM GETTING LOST IN MY OWN INSANE RANTING
lol Cheers
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Post by HG|Lord Shand on Oct 16, 2004 5:27:46 GMT -5
[quote author=[GG]FlippyXtrem link=board=Glory&thread=1097260186&start=4#0 date=1097421718] O trust me I know my russians and yes the Guards have good stats in there Charge and Morale and the Grens have a decent Charge and attack rating...however this doesnt cut it while they are attacking or defending from KGL Lights supported by KGL Line or British Line....there just gonna get smoked...plus the Russian Guards and Grens move just as fast and the Generic Line Infantry...which plays a big role in there disadvantage...because that KGL Light infantry for example is gonna rip down my boys before they can even fire a shot...and Dont tell me to charge with cav at the lights...because that works only 10% of the time...because if the Brit commander is smart...he'll just have that Line infantry behind them ready to support....the Charge would be folly..and a waste of some good cav units...so Like I said..WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE? you know? lol Cheers[/quote]
I think u just answered your own question, a good commander knows what units to have and where to put them and how to use them, I myself love playin with the swedes. Just dont let them get into melee and they do pretty well.
I have been thinkin that maybe a update for MP may be needed. ill speak to the other lords and see what they think.
if you would like to post some suggestions for us to consider that would be ok. But im not promising anythin ok.
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Post by flippyxtrem on Oct 20, 2004 15:47:22 GMT -5
ahh interesting a Lord read my post (feels happy)...and I DONT HAVE LORD XELOUS LOCKING ME DOWN!! VICTORY!! God I love being a GG... ;D lol anyways Lord Shand...I dident answer jack in my own questions man ...because im still lookin for answers ...and I know for a fact even if you are a good General...it doesnt matter if you got 6 3 valoured old guard units charging into your 6 russian Guards valoured 2....even if you surrouned the old guard...and hit em the flanks...the mathmatical equation of morale/valour will decide whos the victor...not the genius.... thats the sad truth of it all...and it makes me depressed..and I dont think theres anything that can be done... bah here I go again...remember.. this is my depression of...WHAT HAVE THE LORDZ DONE!! THIS PATCH IS EVIL!! lol Cheers ;D
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Post by [GG] Lord Ashram on Oct 20, 2004 17:21:27 GMT -5
Flip,
What you say is probably true, but remember; 6 Valour 3 Old Guard cost more points than 6 Valour 2 Russian Guard. The POINTS is where things get balanced; for the cost of the old guard, you can buy other units to do damage to the guards.
I do agree that the system is clearly unbalanced right now. As any games developer will tell you, anytime an army list becomes standard, something needs to be changed... and I cannot remember the last time I saw a British army that wasnt 4 KGL light, 4 highlanders, and 4 guards with a few other hanger-ons like cav and arty. There is definately some balancing that still needs to be done... especially to bring the other factions up to match the big main ones. I do have to say, tho, things are certainly better now than with the never-rout Highlanders. I know people say they havent changed, but I have to say that when they go from NEVER routing, even when they are almost completely gone, to routing when a unit should rout, something clearly has been changed.
Ash
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Post by HG|Lord Shand on Oct 21, 2004 2:00:55 GMT -5
I can tell you, as I did all the stats, that pretty much every unit had their stats redone. it is clear that some units were overdone, while others were underdone. As to the Russians, well they were a mixed bag for me, as I had very little info to base their stats on, other than that they were tough. THe KGL lights, are prolly overdone. Will have to take a look at them i think. we might have to play aroudn with the prices to make them and the other strong units less viable on the. Comment welcome.
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Post by [GG]Lord von Döbeln on Oct 21, 2004 4:49:00 GMT -5
I really don't mind that he factions are "unequal" since it would be boring IMO if all factions had basically the same stats. However in MP the prices should better reflect the quality of the units. E.g. a Swedish grenadier valour 0 costs 500 and Highlanders valour 0 cost 400, but have way better stats! If the cost in MP (not in SP) reflected the quality better it would be possible to play "bad" vs "good" nations because you would be able to upgrade valour (weapon, armour) more with the cheaper "bad" units for the same amount of cash, and thus reducing the difference. As it is now to attack with e.g. the Swedes against the Brittish is just plain suicide if the money is somewhat even. And if you defend, the battle is all but over when the highlanders charge your feeble Swedish grenadiers. (OK I'm Swedish so what!!?!!?) [GG]vD
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Post by RFG|LBG on Oct 24, 2004 13:10:53 GMT -5
Hello all I wouldn't mind doin more changes ect, just post your thoughts on what units should be changed 'historicly'. and i'll be happy to make the changes. Like stats, moral, valor ect. Thanks LBG BTW i did most of the changes, and all the guards except the french are about the same when it comes to all their stats.
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