Light Infantry

[[GG]SirDabrowski]

I was thinking earlier about Light Infantry ( I have no life. ). I've noticed that VERY few people actually ever use Light Infantry, and the only REAL time I see them on the field is either with the Russians or with the French. The Russians only use them simply because the Opolnichie are terrible infantry, and the French only use the Voltigeur's as Shock Troops.

So, why don't we make Light Infantry a little faster? We can't really use them as skirmishing right now. More times then not they're used as a part of the main line, or are put in front of the line to soak up damage to keep the Regular Line from being hit.

I ALWAYS see Rifles on the field. Guard Jaegers, Nassau Jaegers, Portugese Cacadores, Green Jackets. It's VERY boring, in my opinion, to see two units of Green Jackets being thrown out in front of me while I'm playing as the Russians, or the Poles.

AWI has showed us one thing: Skirmishers can ROCK when used effectively. Yet, in NTW, they're just about the same speed as Line Infantry, yet are not really fast enough to get away and reform.

Right now, Lights have range over regular line, and they're VERY mean if you can get them up on a hill. Yet, I never see players use them.

Do you use Lights? If not, why?

[[GG]TheAlmightyFork]

I used to, i used to throw them out in front of the main line as a skirmisher screen. But as you said, they are too slow. The secodn they go out in fornt, the enemy launches a cav charge and butchers them.

I'd rather put the money into heavy cavalry. However, in AWI, where all the maps are cavalry unfriendly, i use them alot because they are faster, and can hold off a larger force if used right, giving me time to deploy my army.

Plus, in most ntw games all palyers start with their armies fully deployed. The purpose of thel ight infantry on campaign was to hold the enemy forces back and give the regular troops time to deploy int oline of battle from column.

[flippyxtrem]

I like to use Light Infantry because they make good support troops because they *usually* have a bit longer range than Line and *usually* fire faster and move a bit faster.

Though, I agree. They do not act like skirmishers at all, like as they should. They should have a bit higher speed then maybe it can be fixed up a bit.

Cheers

[[GG]Lord von Döbeln]

AWI-TW showed that skirmishing is possible (and efficient) with the right type of troops, so changes are a-comin'...

[GG]LvD

[[GG]ThinRedLine]

YAY!!!

TRL

[[GG]SirDabrowski]

Our founding members are soooooo smart! ;D

[GG]SirDabrowski

[flippyxtrem]

The Russians only use them simply because the Opolnichie are terrible infantry

Im presuming by "The Russians" you mean people who play the Russian faction dominantly (i have no russian blood, just heart

While I cant speak for the other russian faction players, I can speak for the Cossack Guard russian faction players.

We like to use Russian Light Infantry alot. Saying we use them simply because opolenchie are terrible infantry is a narrow conclusion.

The Russian Army in NTW have very limited long range infantry units. No rifles. Russian Light infantry have the longest range of any Russian Infantry, so they are very valuable.

Also the Russian Light infantry fire faster than the line infantry and even have a higher MB than the russian line!!

Russian Lights also move fast, which is critical for the Russian faction players ablility to skirmish and set a screen/holding action for his armys movements and attacks.

Now without a doubt Russian Light Infantry is far better than Opolenchie and I would always choose any other russian infantry unit over opolenchie, but to say we (CG) use them simply because they are better than opolenchie is not correct, and honestly when do I ever see yourself using militia in place of your light infantry or in any other case? or a prussian player use landwehr?

and heres some examples of my exploits with the russian light infantry and the importance of russian light infantry in my gaming.







As all can see, the Light Infantry are not that bad and in some cases are actually almost better than the line infantry and guard units total kills!! simply because there better than opolenchie? simply because the Russian Light infantry are what helps use survive tactically on the field comrade.

I hope this was worth peoples time reading, and dont feel like im attacking you dabrowski, its your opinion, and i respect it and acknowledge it.

I just want others to see I disagree with your stated reason and I have proof to back my claims

Cheers Comrades

[KHD|HitmanM4]

I like to think of light infantry as a contraceptive for my line infantry, if you like.

If there is any unit in ntw which accurately depicts it's real life predecessor to the max then it's light infantry, in saying that i'm not speaking about all the lights, i know the French like to use them as a battering ram.

[flippyxtrem]

When I play french I honestly use Volts/Tirr for some skirmishing but mostly they make a nice battering ram for sure, there no doubt nice "shock troops". the MB is a crazy and the morale is very good, the range they got and firing speed is also a nice touch, they move fast to.

So the Volts/Tirr have stats like a light infantry unit but also mixed stats of a grenadier/guard unit sorta speak and that comes in the word Elite Light Infantry.

How about historical accuracey? were Volts/Tirr used as "shock troops" a mixture of skirimishing and assualting? I thought they were? anybody care to do some book search?

[KHD|HitmanM4]

French lights were chosen from the line battalions as small men who had a superior shot than normal. They weren't cut out for a highly physical melee.

They were merely used to cover the advance of the French column and nothing more. The notion they were used as a battering ram is balderdash.

[falkon]

Never being one to turn down the opportunity of heated debate and to prove what a smartass I think I am heres a response to Flippys request for facts.

French light infantry first officially appeared with the addition of a 'voltigeur' company to French line battalions. Voltigeur means 'leaper', i.e small agile men. Thus for most of the Napoleonic wars a French line battalion consisted of 1 Grenadier Co. 4 Fusilier Co's and a Voltigeur Co. Total 6. The Voltigeurs were there to skirmish in advance of the line, picking off officers, artillery crew etc.

It worked quite well, therefore whole battalions of light infantry were introduced. ( Legere). The only difference between the organisation of a legere and line battalion was the legere grenadiers were called Carabiniers, the fusiliers were called Chasseurs and the Volts stayed the same. Now unlike the line, all of a legere battalion was trained to skirmish. They were better shots generally and had a higher 'espirit de corps' and fancier uniforms. But on most occasions they acted exactly like line. Just an up market line battalion. But they were still picked for being small men. If they were required to act as skirmishers they could. It didn't happen all that often because each line battalion would throw out its voltigeurs ( including the volts of the legere battalions ) and that was plenty. Too many skirmishers just get in each others way. So the short answer is no, they were certainly not shock troops, nor used as such. They were small and agile. You need big men to have impact. Occasionally all the grenadiers companies would be taken from the line battalions and formed into provisional grenadier battalions. These were big men, better for the job.

Without doubt, the French light troops were very effective used in numbers. They would disrupt the enemy line and cause it to withdraw. Everybody else tried the same system but not with the success of the French. Usually the French would outshoot the enemy lights and then start work on the enemy line. Then along came a man called Sir John Moore.

He was a Brit who had served in the AWI. He saw just how effective the d**n colonial skirmishers had been. He set up a training programme for British Light Infantry and turned out some very well trained soldiers. Amongst the finest were the Rifles, slower to load but very very accurate and a longer range. So when the French finally came to grips with the Brits in Spain the French found their usual tactics didn't succeed. They were facing light infantry as good or better than themselves. Whole battalions of them just like their own legere. Plus the Brits also had a light company in each line regiment. So the whole thing became a Mexican stand off.

NTW is a little confusing when it refers to French lights. For example Tirailleurs were extremely rare. There were two Tirailleur battalions in the French Army, the Corse ( Corsicans) and the Po ( N. Italians). But the light infantry of the Imperial Guard were all called Tirailleurs. 7 Regiments of them. So if you pick tirailleurs you are really choosing guard light infantry. Chasseurs are another puzzling reference. As explained chasseurs are the legere equivalent to ordinary French fusiliers. Yes they can skirmish but you get the whole battalion including volts and carabiniers. In effect, what you should have if you use French lights are Voltigeurs. If you are playing the Imperial Guard then choose Tirailleurs.

But dont use them as shock troops or the shock will be yours. ( or should be but this is NTW!!)

Falkon

[arman]

Russian Light though have very good historical melee profile.

[flippyxtrem]

thank you Doctor Falkon

I noticed the same about the Chassuers and the Tirr, gets confusing.

And yes russian light infantry and russian jagers were very tough in a brawl historically ;D

[arman]

In Russian books I have never heared Jagers and Light Infantry together. So probably it's the same thing althrough I'm not sure, but I think they were calling Light Infantry "Yeger" - that means Jager.
Yegers were always going first when moving throught the would, and many times showed go melee. For example they have counter attacked French Line and recaptured lost redouts in Borodino. They also charged Young Guard in battle of Lipzig and fought quite good.
When supported by grenadiers there were quite efficient, they are good melee, but Grenadiers giving them additional weight of charge.

[[GG]SirDabrowski]

flippyxtrem said:

Now without a doubt Russian Light Infantry is far better than Opolenchie and I would always choose any other russian infantry unit over opolenchie, but to say we (CG) use them simply because they are better than opolenchie is not correct, and honestly when do I ever see yourself using militia in place of your light infantry or in any other case? or a prussian player use landwehr?

I do believe Sir Shwick and Andrew Kent can both claim that I bought four Militia and four Landwehr when I played a 2v1 against them. But, surely not I, right? I mean when was the last time I used Militia, right?

And Von Dobeln can account that the last 1v1 we had, I used Landwehr over Prussian/Brunswick Line. But, of course, I never use Landwehr either, right? Because I have no idea what I'm talking about, correct?

So, please, next time when you try to contradict my opinion for whatever reason, do not accuse me of not ever using Militia or Landwehr. You will find yourself pleasingly proved incorrect.

But, my point was, as you mistakenly overpassed and looked over in your attempt to "Disprove me" was that Russian Light Infantry are not use as "Light Infantry" in the least! Nine times our of Ten they are used as Line Infantry!

But, when did you ever see [CG] typed in my post? When did I accuse them of anything? Paranoid, Flip?

But, what do I know, right?

[GG]SirDabrowski