Post by [GG] Lord Ashram on Mar 27, 2006 21:38:16 GMT -5
Dude, I for one am very glad you like it. Can I ask, since we have never discussed, to give me your thoughts and such? I am just always curious for feedback!
I played a game recently with my best friend buddy; he commanded a small american force; I had a HUGE british force. My orders were to get more than 80 percent of my starting force across the board; his was simply to prevent that:) I moved only in column, and kept my armies going, as he skirmished and picked at me the whole way. In the end I couldn't do it; a last minute Native ambush on the head of my column threw things into disarray and I deployed en masse, thus giving the Americans on my heels times to pick away at the rear of my stalled column for what felt like ages before I was able to really sweep the Natives away (they were in the woods, where my dragoons just didnt want to go!) Overall the game rocked:)
I have to say; I HIGHLY recommend if you havent tried ATW to do so; the ACW era, with its MANY different infantry types, really demands that a commander buy a very balanced army while at the same time knowing which men are best at what... meanwhile, AWI is the ultimate skirmish vs line fight... a skillfully-managed American force is THE most enjoyable to use in ALL of the Total War mods, with managing a nice collection of French light infantry in NTW a close second:)
Overall, the games are fun, do give them a try! Dogg, I am glad you like them:D
Post by [GG] SeaDogg on Mar 28, 2006 10:13:35 GMT -5
Hello Ash, I have to say, its pretty amazing how you get units to behave in a realistic manner, meaning that they do in the game relatively what they were intended to do originally. (Or what we think they did.) I wonder sometimes how subjective that desire:/:result action is. For example, Ive seen you say that you should NEVER melee with light troops. But I have used lite inf to cover positions when other troops were getting tired or could not reach a location in time and the trade off between their speed marching and their ability to fight H2H was pretty good.
I used a couple light troops in a fruity desert battle last nite too and wished Id had more of them. (PPO, Kester and I defending vs 3 PVI fellows. We won.) ( Oh; another BTW- bluch had their art and I had ours, neither gun appeared able to fire thru the whole battle. My 8 v1 was exhausted after firing for 5 mins and never recovered even when I found a tree to shade them under- well it WAS a pitiful tree-)
Ive been re-reading the stuff I have on the Am Revolution for the last month and of course seeing new things I didnt know before. Ive noticed that both sides made good use of light infantry, somtimes units were made light inf in an emergency setting simply by dropping every scrap of unnecessary gear in order not to be slowed down. Cornwallis ( who I have come to have new levels of both respect and pity ) did it in the southern campaign while trying to chase rebel forces. He simply burned the entire baggage train. They paid for it later too but at the time it accomplished what he desired in getting out of bad country.
For both the Continental Regiments(who were still inherantly local boys even if they didnt happen to live in the particular woods they were in at any one moment) and for local militia, the familiarity with the terrain is what made them able to haraass and fight whatever british troops were around. In most units there was always someone around who knew the land locally a little better. Citizens who came out to act as guides did this more time than we will ever know. And in every force that was assembled ( the habit and necessity of winter quarters sort of meant that each year you have a new mixture of recruits, veterans, quality of militia etc.) was a little different on the American side, yet the british side, by virtue of its consistent training is relatively the same. One good example of local help by the way was at the ''Little'' battle of Brandywine where a local citizen came to Gen Greene and informed him that there was another ford over the creek which he did not know of. A local tory had done the same thing for the brits the day before but at the last minute the rebel army was able to get away simply by recieving this one piece of useful information.
Post by [GG] Lord Ashram on Mar 28, 2006 10:36:03 GMT -5
Yo! Dont worry, it is intentional! Lights CAN be used for close combat, of course, especially once you start talking about Tirrels and Volts in NTW... however, that isnt their PRIMARY strength; while their melee is often on par with line infantry, they only have a few supporting ranks, compared to line infantry. However, given their speed they can be VERY effective in close combat if used right, so you are right on that account. I just rarely use them up close if I can avoid it, as I tend to use a lot of the good shooting lights:) In AWI and ACW it is very different, of course, than in NTW:)
I did try to reflect the American familiarity with the terrain by making their units highly mobile. Yeah they might suck in a firefight, or even in close combat, but they move SO quickly they can really take advantage of the slow moving british army. Also when they rout they can quickly get far enough away that they can recover and be used again.
Post by [GG] SeaDogg on Mar 28, 2006 11:11:57 GMT -5
I would add a couple more impressions to this cause Im going to keep playing it in solo as often as I can.
We should educate ourselves more thoroughly abt when certain special units were actually available in Am Rev war battles.
1- To my understanding, Indian units were not present in any battles from Maryland south, which includes the entire southern campaign ending at Yorktown. Any one living up north of my would likely have more first hand knowledge the use of Indians up there than I would. Please give us some factual imput if you do. I cannot concieve, for example, of Indians having come out to help militia in South Carolina or Georgia or even western Pennsylvania because they were being they were fighting for thier own dwindling land and resourses if they were even within a hundred miles of what was then the frontier. Can you imagine Indians being welcomed at KingsMountain when local riflemen systematically picked off Mr Ferguson and his local Loyalist? NO- that was a white man's fight in its purest form. I suppose there could have been a few individual natives acting as guides or even a few getting paid here and there and we will never know. But the fights large enough ( and to my perception) - hundreds of miles north of here were also almost certainly different tribes with different reasons or motives for joining.
2- French Troops- My understanding of actual service of french troops on the ground is limited. To my knowledge they didnt do anything to help us prior to the Yorktown siege- and what they did there definitely helped end Cornwallis's hopes both on land and sea. They were not present in early battles up north and when they did arrive in New England there was a lot of hemming and hawing around about whether they would leave the coastal areas where they had the support and protection of the fleet. Based on that, unless you are doing a simulation of Yorktown I would nt use them in pitched land battles if you want a realistic show of the types of forces available.
3- Cavalry- When and wher were cavalry actually available? IN the south we all know who Tarleton was, and we know that American forces had by this time trained a few hundred light horse and learned to use them well. But in earlier battles up north? Was there any? Other than dragoons and light cav I dont think there was any other type of cavalry used during the revolution.(ethnocentricity- amurikun boys only know of one revolution - lol)
4- Artillery- What is the largest field artillery that could realistically have been transported thru rough and back woods areas.? How often were 8 &12 lbrs actually present on the field? At Cowpens Tarleton had a pair of 3 pounders; he was traveling fast on a wild goose chase and on unfamiliar trails; thats all he had the time for. I am all for experimenting with more and bigger guns and would gladly use more units per side even if it is devastating and laggy, but from the view of historic realism we can get side tracked very quickly with the availability of weapons larger than what were actually present.
5- Militia and Minuteman units- If I had my choice I would figure out a system to grade the qualtiy of milita in different ways. Dont assume that militia from any two states, or the Loyalist militia from the same region are indentical. At Cowpens Morgan let the militia do exactly as they would have anyway; two rounds and run away- rally if you can. At Cowpens they did rally and fought well once they saw the Continentals withdraw and reform in an orderly manner. This gave them some guts no one expected them to have. At Guilford Ct House the militia was given essentially the same role, but they made more of a fight than they were expected to. Cornwallis wanted to get a hold of some rebel force in a pitched battle so desperately that he was able to use this to bring more of his force to bear. Greene was lucky to withdraw with out significant losses. So the role of the militia was totally different in the end.
As for minutemen, I love them in the game. They fight nearly as well as Continental Regualars and I wouldnt change a thing. They are cheap and very good when Ive had a chance to try them. I dont know though about their actual numbers and my impression is that they were more representative of early, northern rebel forces and not present at all in the south. Perhaps theres a way to add some different quality militia on each side to a few scenarios. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ These are only suggestions but if any of you have input Id love to hear it. Im not working from written materails in front of me at them moment, sort of more from memory. I would hate to see us spend a lot of time fighting supposed american revolution battles using mixtures of troops that did not really exist.
Well Ive blabthered on for some time now. I should do some real work. cheers lads,
Post by [GG] SeaDogg on Mar 28, 2006 11:16:32 GMT -5
One more thing I meant to mention, Continental Regiments did not suck in a fire fight, certainly on average Brit discipline was more cumulative and in the long run would be better, but once they were trained, Continentals surprised British regulars over and over again with what they could do.
Post by [GG]Lord von Döbeln on Mar 30, 2006 3:43:55 GMT -5
I think Ash's primary goal for AWI was to create something that would play and feel differently from NTW (I think he did a marvellous job) and historical accuracy was at times "sacrificed" to achieve this, which means some units perhaps won't stand the scrutiny of a "historical realism"-minded eye.
"Let no bastard pass the bridge!"
- General Johan August Sandels in The Tales of Ensign Stål by Johan Ludvig Runeberg
Post by [GG] SeaDogg on Mar 30, 2006 8:55:25 GMT -5
Yes; i know that. Anything I say related to that is not criticism of the mod; but fuel for improvement. I play this mod solo once or twice a day because no one else is regularly interested in really working at it. I hope it survives the next round of versions that come along.