The Old Guard

[flippyxtrem]

This is what I think...

The Old Guard has the right to be the most powerful unit in the game......and it is. The old guard are the best Guard Infantry in NTW

However I do not think they need a tone down in stats...

Heres the Stats for Old Guard:

Range: 4050
Reload Time: 19
March Speed: 7
Run Speed: 12
Charge Speed: 13
Chorge Bonus: 5
Melee Bonus: 4
Defence: 5
Armour: 1
Honor: 8
Ammo: 60
Preferred Ranks: 4

Russian Guards Infantry Stats...I looked and this was the only Guard unit that came close as far as stats....

Range: 4000
Reload Time: 17
MS: 6
RS: 11
CS: 12
CB: 3
MB: 3
D: 4
Armour: 1
Honor: 7
Ammo: 60
Ranks: 4

You can see the advantages and disadvantages between the two

However it seems that the Unit Cost is a problem for the Old Guard...

Starting Price for Old Guard- 700

Old Guard Valour upgrade costs

Valour 1 = 490 cost
Valour 2 = 833 cost
Valour 3 = 1416 cost
Valour 4 = 2407 cost

Starting Price for Russian Guard- 480

Russian Guard Valour upgrade costs

Valour 1 = 336
Valour 2 = 571
Valour 3 = 971
Valour 4 = 1651

Now added up...a Valour 4 Old Guard has a MB of an 8 and a Russian Guard has a MB of 7....the old guard is superior...but still...its pretty close...

And also the Biggest Factor...Morale...Added up to a Valour 4 Old Guard taht makes it a 16...A Valour 4 Russian Guard makes a morale total of 15...not a big difference eh?

You can see the big difference here in price...so do you really think the old guard should be more expensive?

actually it doesnt need to be more expensive...

the problem is...Hosts give alot of money for us to spend...with this large sum of money we are able to buy units like the Old Guard and make them so powerful

a total cost for a Valour 3 Old Guard adds up to 3429...now when you have 30,000 Florins to buy with...that cost doesnt really phase you....

so contradicting myself here...but maybe a increase in unit price for the Old Guard is needed...because hosts give a high amount of money...or is it just that the unit prices have to match what our online hosts are giving us?

Another thing...as I said...the Russian Guards were the closest to the Old Guard in stats....all the other factions do come close to the Russians...for total Morale the Prussian and British guads add up to the same Morale as the Russian Guards...however there CB and MB are all different...giving each Guards unit...a unique advantage and a dis-advantage...

Though there is no weakness to the Old Guard in stats...perhaps there disadvantage should be there price?...ive been looking into this alot...but I dont know if all this information here supports a good claim to increase its price...

ten minutes later...okay guys after typing that...I stopped...took a Bathroom Break...and began cooking ramen noodles...and I came to a decision...

Due to teh average amount of money Hosts give for players to use....a Price Increase should raised for the Old Guard...as I said 30,000 florins to spend can be an easy 4, 3 Valoured Old GUard...but thats my conclusion...

perhaps we can fine alternative? or maybe this is just something we should decide?

I will copy this topic to our [GG] Beta Testing to talk in private if we need about antying....

As some of you know...I used to be a beta tester for the Lordz but due to my disputes with Xelous and my rude behavior they dropped me from tehre team...I still wish to help...though im not a beta tester no more...im still a passionate fan of NTW and NTW MP

I am not trying to attack the Old Guard...and im not trying to defend the Old Guard...im just trying to figure out how we can stop 6 old guard at valour 2 showing up on the field...AND YES...IVE SEEN IT MORE THAN THREE TIMES FOR SURE!!

alot of questions...and we should try to discuss here...

thx for your time all

p.s. Ive been up all night posting this stuff...I may have counted a few things off by a bit..not significantly maybe by just a bit...been re-reading and correcting a few things...please let me know if you see any errors...

Cheers

[HG|Lord Shand]

great post Flippy, will take note!

[[GG]Lord von Döbeln]

As I have stated in other posts: IMO the unit cost should be more closely tied to the unit's combat bonuses. As I showed in an example a Swedish Grenadier unit that gets close in stats to an Old Guard costs twice as much! This makes it VERY hard indeed to get a fair battle if money is about the same on both sides. Based on this example a Swedish army would need about twice the amount of florins to be able to compete with a French army on somewhat equal terms.

IMHO the stats are not wrong but the COST of the stats is (so to say).

As for what units people buy... IMO you can buy whatever you want if no rules are agreed upon before the battle. If you want a more historically correct blend of troops it is easy enough to state that before the game.

[GG]vD

[[GG]AndrewKent]

Unit costs can probably be tuned up, but care must be taken not to carry this too far.

HOWEVER, I think Flippy hit on the real problem... too much money available.

I have always maintained that lower florin games are more realistic, more challenging and ultimately more FUN, if players will just approach them with the right mindset.

The arcade type gamers don't like these lower florin games, but I think they are much better.

The other solution is campaign games or something similar, where the unit mix is controlled by the host.

Thanks for the analysis Flippy.

AndrewKent

[[GG]ThinRedLine]

Excellent Post Flippy, thank You.

I myself tend to agree with both AK and vD.

I like the lower Florin Games and I think that prices need to better reflect fair balance.

Cheers,

S!

TRL

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

And we, as Guards, might want to design something to balance "army buying" ourselves, independantly of the Lordz mod.

Lemme work on something (while not working on the next campaign... ugh that takes a LOT:() and maybe we can come up with a Guards Standard, which would lay out how many of each type of unit you should buy for each army and some set lists, just like army lists in other, tabletop wargames.

Lemme play with it.

Ash

[[GG]Lord von Döbeln]

Eeeeh play with what Ash?! AAAAAH the numbers!

[GG]vD

[flippyxtrem]

you can buy whatever you want if no rules are agreed upon before the battle. If you want a more historically correct blend of troops it is easy enough to state that before the game.


That can be a problem because people might like to pretend they are buying Napoleonns Personal Guard and will just buy 4 Old Guard 4 Middle Guard 4 Young Guard you know?

I think prices and money have the biggest concern...

And Like what Andrew and TRL said...I do perefer the low money games like the 15000-25000 floring range games are pretty interesting and makes you buy your army very carefully sometimes a valour 2, 3 line infantry are more effective to buy rather than a valour 3 old guard...

well anyways...Im glad this post got some many replys so quick...

I'll post more stuff later tonight on the French and British...if I have the time

Cheers

[RFG|LBG]

Sounds fair to me.

LBG