Why dont the Russians have jagers?

[[GG]Lord von Döbeln]

The information on this site about the Russian army in 1812:
home.comcast.net/~markconrad/1812CARD.html
seems to indicate that very few rifles where in use in the Russian Jaeger units.

"In jäger regiments the 1805 rifle [shtutser] with sword-bayonet [kortik] was still in use, although it had been ordered withdrawn in 1808. This was used to arm non-commissioned officers and the best marksmen (12 men in each company)."

If this is correct only 20-25? men per jaeger company where armed with rifles, at least in 1812. Maybe the Russians could get small (and expensive) units of rifle jaegers like the Pandours in the EA patch? This would at least even the odds slightly in long range fire fights...

[GG]vD

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

Hey, I really like the idea of the ultra small rifle unit!

[[GG]Lord von Döbeln]

Am I not brilliant?! ;D


[GG]vD

[WIDEBLADE]

Phillip Elliot Wright on his book the "rifleman" says-------------Prussia and a handful of smaller German states as Hannover yet possesed a specialist corps of rifle-armed Jagger,both the Russian and Austrian armies viewing their jagger batallions as generalised light infantry,trained to screen deployments rather than act as trained sharpshooters.In both the Austrian and Russian armies,only around 10% of their jagger were even armed with rifles,the remainder carrying smoothbore muskets of a slightly lighter construction than the standard infantry version.-----------this was by the early 1790s but seems that as late as 1800 field instructions were set for riflemen to fight by its own at Prussian army{Hans von York} ,Austria and some other german states implemented this new doctrine but im afraid Rusia didnt.

A small very small rifle unit for russians seems good,about 40 men or so....

But i wonder if "triing to balance " shouldnt take into a plain and simple equal army for all but in different clads, it should be a great loss for the game interest.

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

I tend to agree; if all the armies are the "same" it will just be boring. However, the flip side of this coin is that everyone knows and shares the "numbers" behind the game, which results in people complaining when they lose to a statistically superior force.

I would think Russians should just stick with light infantry, with maybe a small unit of expensive rifles. In fact, I think all rifle units should be made smaller, so that there is a very tangible difference between light infantry and rifles; lights have bigger units but shorter range, whereas rifles have range, but if engaged at shorter range dont have the manpower to stand up to main combat units. This gives each type of skirmisher a distinct and defined strength and weakness on the battlefield.

Ash

[WIDEBLADE]

An easy way to solve these unit probs and make the game more rational is this :


BRITAIN PRUSSIA AUSTRIA GERMAN PORTUGAL should have big jagger units but so expensive that more than 1 unit or perhaps 1 is not worth the money ,if yu want a force of such a quality units yu should tell to yur team mates and spend the money in 3 or 4 units but yu know that perhaps yu will not have money fr more than a total of 8 units or so in yur army so yu have to be supported by yur allies.I could say the same of old guard ,british royal guard etc... Elite units should be really expensive,this way we should see more liners in battle fights.And to make use of the elite skills should be part of a team agreement between same side players.Other countrires perhaps small j units but very expensive too.

This way a 16 slots army with a reasonable value should be a liners army basically and the bulk of the armies should be what it for real was .

I really believe that this could add a higer degree of thinking what units fr what tactical in game performance, really fun.

[HG|Lord Shand]

This should be posted up at the Lords in the MP suggestions!

[flippyxtrem]

NO!!

Not my topic in the lordz forum!!

I DONT POST THERE!!

But I see that it got brought up there ...the horror...the horror...

anyways

I think its all pretty settled...the russians had jagers...just not a whole mess load of them with rifles...because Jagers do not necessarily mean guys with rifles...but soldiers who are like hunters...Jager is german for hunter if somebody dident know...

and I see where they are classified as Light infantry to prevent confusion...perhaps the russians can have a Grenadier Light Infantry like how the Prussians have a Jager Guards...hmm just a fantasy...but why not suggest?

Cheers

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

I know that the Eastern Alliance patch can continue to be worked on, and I know the idea of smaller jaeger companies has been proposed there. We will certainly consider it!