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Post by [GG]ThinRedLine on Oct 15, 2004 12:16:16 GMT -5
Ladies and Gentlemen, All of this talk of no artillery in NTW has inspired me to include this most wonderful and most famous poem. While it is true that the inspiration for this poem happened not on the fields of a Napoleonic European Battle, but during the Battle of Balaclava. It is also true that in 1854, during the Crimean War, warfare was still very much Napoleonic. Enjoy! The Charge of the Light Brigade Alfred, Lord Tennyson 1. Half a league, half a league, Half a league onward, All in the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward, the Light Brigade! "Charge for the guns!" he said: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred.
2. "Forward, the Light Brigade!" Was there a man dismay'd? Not tho' the soldier knew Someone had blunder'd: Their's not to make reply, Their's not to reason why, Their's but to do and die: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred.
3. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them Volley'd and thunder'd; Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well, Into the jaws of Death, Into the mouth of Hell Rode the six hundred.
4. Flash'd all their sabres bare, Flash'd as they turn'd in air, Sabring the gunners there, Charging an army, while All the world wonder'd: Plunged in the battery-smoke Right thro' the line they broke; Cossack and Russian Reel'd from the sabre stroke Shatter'd and sunder'd. Then they rode back, but not Not the six hundred.
5. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon behind them Volley'd and thunder'd; Storm'd at with shot and shell, While horse and hero fell, They that had fought so well Came thro' the jaws of Death Back from the mouth of Hell, All that was left of them, Left of six hundred.
6. When can their glory fade? O the wild charge they made! All the world wondered. Honor the charge they made, Honor the Light Brigade, Noble six hundred.
Copied from Poems of Alfred Tennyson, J. E. Tilton and Company, Boston, 1870
[img src="http://www.ntwgg.com/Gallery/1249630[1].jpg"] [glow=red,2,300]For Glory And Eagles![/glow] [glow=red,2,300]S![/glow]
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Post by [GG] Tuncarl on Oct 15, 2004 14:59:34 GMT -5
Nice classic poem m8.
Funnily enough I have been reading a bit about that era recentley and there are a few interesting things about that charge that I thought I would share with you.
Firstly the officer who brought the order to the light brigade asked to join the charge and was one of the first casualties of the charge.
The light brigade were over eager to charge as they had not been involved much in the previous battles and a little while earlier they had witnessed their brothers in the heavy brigade decimate a huge cossack charge.
It is commonly thought that Raglan (I think he was in command) intended the light brigade to charge the Russian inf on the southern hills of the valley, as they were half inching (pinching/stealing) the british artillery that had been abandoned there. There was a lot of antagonism between the officers involved right down from the top and no one seems to know for sure how they recieved the order to charge down the valley, but most blame the officer who brought the order and was conveniently killed at the beggining of the charge, so he could not be quizzed about it.
As the light brigade returned from the jaws of hell, it was the French cavalry that charged the nearer Russians to allow the Light brigade to escape.
I may not be 100 % accurate with the above, but it should be fairly close. The whole Crimean war was a complete shambles. The French were better organised and better equipped, the British troops had desperatley needed equipment locked away in the holds of ships in the harbour, as no one would alow it to be disperesed without the correct paperwork which had to come from England.
Unbelievably, these under fed, under equipped and badly led troops won battles ! As TRL says, he got his name from the Thin red line which held a huge cossack charge at bay. It was one isolated regiment (I believe Sutherland Scotish) and wounded from a hospital and a few assorted Turks etc.
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Post by flippyxtrem on Oct 15, 2004 15:19:51 GMT -5
Thin red line which held a huge cossack charge at bay. NAH...they probably got into squares to hold my cossacks off Brit infantry is strong but not unbeatable... nice poem... but arty is still crappy....GOD BLESS THE NO ARTY RULES!! Cheers ;D
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Post by [GG]ThinRedLine on Oct 15, 2004 19:09:11 GMT -5
Young Flippy, It is just this sort of thing that has gotten you into trouble in the past and will continue to get you into trouble in the future. It truly is best not to disparage a proud and proven Regiment and its history. Particulalry when one of your commanding officers thinks so highly of them! This is an account of that famous battle and one of the many acts of heroism and steadfast service to the crown and their brothers in arms to which I derive my very name! Please be more respectful. That's an order! In 1854 they were back in England when war broke out with Russia. By September they were in the Crimea. With the 42nd and 79th regiments they formed the Highland Brigade under Sir Colin Campbell, an old Napoleonic veteran and one of the few actually good generals in positions of command. [img src="http://www.ntwgg.com/Gallery/uni3[1].jpg"] 93rd uniforms during the Crimean War: left to right, Piper, Officer, Private, all of a battalion company.On 20 September the Brigade in full Highland uniform, with the Guards Brigade, waded the Alma River. Advancing in echelon, the British took the heights above while under constant heavy fire. The 93rd was engaged for the next months alternating in the siege of Sebastopol and serving garrison duty. On 25 October they were positioned to protect the main British supply base. A port called Balaklava.
Several thousand Russian cavalry had swept down and captured artillery batteries overlooking a small valley. They rode on with about five thousand continuing on the road to Balaklava, the others diverting to be cut down by the charge of the Heavy Brigade. The 93rd - about 500 including a few walking-wounded of other units - stood behind a ridge in the road to avoid the artillery now turned against them. As the Russian cavalry came nearer the 93rd moved forward and stood in line astride the road to the port and the British supplies. On either flank stood a battalion of their Turkish allies who fired an ineffectual volley at 800 yards, then broke and ran. (It may seem from a correspondence from a 93rd officer at the time that 50 casualties suffered by the Turks may have come from a volley purposely fired by a company of the 93rd into their fleeing allies!) Sir Colin Campbell rode down the line: "There is no retreat from here men, you must die where you stand." A chorus was taken up by the 93rd in answer, "Aye Sir Colin, and needs be we'll do that." Campbell did not form the regiment into the usual square formation to withstand cavalry but rather left them in line, later commenting, "I knew the 93rd, and knew there was no need (to form square)." They fired a volley at 500 yards from their rifled muskets and another at 250 yards. They commenced fire by files. The cavalry split in half and veered to the left and right wheeling back. The Grenadier Company wheeled right to fire once more into the horsemen to refuse the flank and insuring the enemy's retreat. On a hill above, London Times correspondent W.H. Russell watched and wrote of nothing standing between the cavalry and the supply base but "the thin red streak tipped with steel". This news report gained the Regiment immortality and gave them their nickname. The phrase was popularly condensed to become "THE THIN RED LINE". (excerpt from "The 93rd Sutherland Highland Regiment of Foot 1800 - 1881 ") A more complete history can be found at this cool site: hometown.aol.com/ninety3rd/hist.html[glow=red,2,300]For Glory And Eagles![/glow] S!
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Post by HG|Lord Shand on Jan 3, 2005 6:25:34 GMT -5
I've actaully read accounts of this battle TRL where the Turkish were given a little more credit than the desultory few vollets before running.
They had actually endured a very heavy artillery bombardment(the same one the the highlanders were sheltering from) only they were a lot more exposed, along with the fact they were not supplies, were hungry, had uniforms in tatters, and were poorly led, they did quite well.
but u are right, the scots did perform well on the day and deserve the respect that they're name has given them
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Post by flippyxtrem on Jan 3, 2005 8:55:28 GMT -5
I agree with you Shand...the Turks were more fighting worthy than what the British say they were... I mean look at Waterloo...it was as if Blucher and the Prussians were never there... Funny how sometimes history can be shadowed and forgotten Cheers
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Post by [GG]ThinRedLine on Jan 3, 2005 11:41:29 GMT -5
Though I do not know, and may never know, how well the Turkish Infantry served next to the 93rd, I do know that the Turkish Spahis and Light Cavalry served extremly well on this day!
If they had not charged up the Left salient and taken out the guns there, there might have been even fewer of the British Light Brigade returning through that gauntlet of fire.
However, it seems plain that no matter how well the Turkish Infantry performed throughout the campaign or on this day, they did not stand when the Russian Cav came a callin'!
The Turks have performed very well in many wars and campaigns and my statements above in no way reflect on their service as a whole. Just next to the 93rd that day and that charge and that stand!
Salute!
TRL
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Post by HG|Lord Shand on Jan 4, 2005 5:20:41 GMT -5
I dunno flippy, most modern day accounts of Waterloo, I've read give plenty of credit to the rest of the allies, except maybe for the Dutch, as their role seems a bit dubious, but obvisouly we can only go from the written accounts that we have, and as we know the people of those times (esp. British) were rather biased towards their own. Which is why it is good that a lot of modern day historians are really getting down to investigating and researching their material, instead of just rephrasing the accounts and records of days gone by, as it has been seen that many of them are either extremely biased, lacking correct information or just down right lies. SO while it is true that in the past the British could be seen to be stealing the glory of Waterloo, most modern day accounts certainly emphasise the point that it was "an allied victory" and that neither the Prussians nor the British and dutch could have won without the support of the other. In fact neither Wellington nor Blucher would have even been fighting on that day had they not been certain they would be receiving support for the other. Back to the turks - ill requote one account of the battle i have that sheds some light on the issue TEXT"They weren't Turkish regulars, they were militia from north africa. The previous three or four weeks, the toal ration issue that they had been given to eat was two biscuits, and they'd been living off what they could find lying around on the ground There wasn't much left for the poor turks - they were starving, ill-equipped, under-appreciated - and they're under attack" "The Turks managed to keep firing and managed to hold out for about an hour against the full armed might of one-third of the Russian army, which is all anybody could expect of gunners under those circumstances" "At redoubt No 1 they fought very bravely and resolutley, and did themselve great credit" It goes on to say that one reason why the brits were reluctant to give more credit is because they were not too forthcoming in sending help to them. "In my view the contribution by those Ottoman Trops in Redoubt No.1 on Canrobert's Hill was absolutley vital. Without it, there would not have been time for the defences of Balaklava to be assembled behind them. A grace injustice has been done to the Turks who fought at Balaklava. They fouight resolutely against overwhelming odd without any kind of support" It then goes on to say "When the allied CnC with his staff officers and The Times journalis in tow finally reached their position overlooking the battlefield, overlooking the plain, the battle between the Turks and Russians in Redoubt No.1 was almost at an end. Therefore all they saw was the Turks withdrawing. What he and the people with him see, is a dysfunctional army just letting go. "Balaklava was in complete turmoil. The ships there really did think the Russians were coming. There was a frantic effort to try and get those ships out of the harbour, and if the Turks had not first of all delayed the Russian assault with their gallant defense of Redoubt No1, there's quite a good chance that the Russians migh t well have got through. TEXTAnyways, thats enough for now, hope i didnt bore you too much.
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Post by flippyxtrem on Jan 5, 2005 8:48:48 GMT -5
Yes today there is alot more credit...that was it was before, but even still for some NTW players they think that Waterloo was just a British Victory...I remember a huge argument of this on the Lordz forum were a guy was shunned down because he tried giving the Dutch and Prussians some credit...hah... But anywho I remember people saying...the battle was strictly under British Command...which I dident think was entirely true because Blucher was in charge of his own troops...lol ya dont mind me...I already made a post about this on the Forgotten Valour at Waterloo... you should read taht Shand... Cheers
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Post by [GG]Buxford on Jan 5, 2005 17:09:49 GMT -5
Waterloo wasn't a British victory, wasn't a German victory, twas an ALLIED victory, where one group couldn't of won the battle without the other's participation.
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Post by flippyxtrem on Jan 5, 2005 23:55:50 GMT -5
exactly my point Bux...lol ;D Cheers
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Post by [GG]Salis De Silver on Jan 6, 2005 3:14:16 GMT -5
Was never in doubt.
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