SirD's Opinion On The Cartoon Fiasco

[[GG]SirDabrowski]

By now I'm sure most of you have heard about the cartoons that have sparked a new fervor in the Middle East, North Africa, and many Pacific Islands. Apparently, a Danish newspaper ( Jyllands-Posten ) printed a few cartoons depicting the prophet Mohammed in many various ways. Including him having a bomb as a turban:



Of course, it's really not all that bad. I mean, we see the same thing from Extremist moslem groups when it comes to the topic of Christianity or Judaism. As a matter of fact, many Moslem extremist groups consider Jews the great Demon and that they should be driven to extinction.

But, apparently, Mohammed with a bomb as a turban is worse. So, many idiots in the Middle East and other areas in the world have decided to do what they do best. Bomb and burn things to the ground ( Hello Paris! ):



"We are so PISSED that you say we bomb and burn things that we are going to bomb and burn your Embassies!"

Seriously, I don't get it at all. What the Hell are they doing? They become what the cartoons thought they did. They bombed and burned stuff. I mean, seriously, we don't need Weapons of Mass Destruction to have an excuse to bomb these idiots. All we have to do is print an offensive cartoon and watch 'em go to town.

I'm startled by the reaction of the world. I really am. "These cartoons were offensive and demeaning, but violence is not the action." ( Vatican statement ) Yes, and? Am I the only one who realizes that they burned down God-d**ned buildings because of a cartoon!? That's pretty much the equivalent of a kid at school drawing a picture of another kid in school out of humor, then having his brains blown out of it.

Would we say, "Well those drawings were derogative and all, but you shouldn't have shot him, bad boy!"

No we wouldn't have. So why is it that the Jordanians and Syrians get away with it? The Danish Government is apologizing for the cartoon and starting to act timid. What are they hoping for? That all this will stop? France backed down and acted timid during the riots in Paris and dozens of French towns, and they received nothing for acting timid. No, instead, they allowed the idiots the chance to get a little braver and bolder. And now look what happens.

So, this leads me to what I'd like to see happen. I'd like to see Europe start acting like the Israeli's act. Just look at Israel's past sometime. Whenever someone threatens Israel, Israel doesn't back down. Oh no, Israel strikes first, beats the Hell out of it's enemy, and then lets them lick their wounds and contemplate their beating.

Just look at what happened in 1981 when Iraq started developing nuclear technology ( Which was aided by France, by the way. )


Israeli F-16's

Israel sent F-16's in to Iraq and bombed the Hell out of the research center and reactor, stopping the threat of a Nuclear power on it's border and stopping any ambition of Iraq receiving nuclear arms anywhere in the near-future ( The near future of 1981, that is ). Even though it was condemned by the United Nations, and even the United States, I say Europe needs to take a lesson from Israel: Don't take **** from anyone.

If someone bombs you, or tries to hurt your citizens, you have every right to go after the little idiots and turn their worlds upside down. That's what Israel did in the Yom Kippur War. Egypt and Syria invael on the Holiest of Jewish days, and what did Israel do? Did it try to apologize, try to seek peace with the two antagonists? No, Israel struck back and beat the Hell out of Syria and Egypt so bad that no Arab nation to this date has ever tried to challenge Israel's borders Miliaded Isrtarily.

It's time that Europe begins to learn how to stand up for itself. I commend the Norwegians for being pissed at Jordan for not protecting it's Embassies.

They've come over here and bombed our buildings and our Embassies, Europe. We took it to them. Now what will Europe do?


EDIT: It seems this will become necessary from now on. My opinions are my own, and they are not the opinions of the Grenadier Guards, or any of it's members, nor of any other organization.

[[GG]Buxford]

Just shows the hypocricy of the Muslim world; they lust over cartoons displaying America and Israel as the "great satan," but are offended when Westerners poke fun at the Islamic world.

Typical.

[[GG]Remi]

i think its important to understand that many european countries have a large muslim minorty and out of that muslim minorty there will be "extremist" that will cause more trouble then its worth to do what is nessecary to put down such riots. The politcal backlash of putting down a riot can be a double edge sword i think. Sure the government could send in troops and beat them into submission but is it right? I think that in general violence is preceived as brutal and a tyranny, so if these government resort to attacking these demostrations it would look bad to say the least.

My own opinion ofcourse is that putting down such demostrations as effectively as possible is in the best interst in securing the state. But maybe that just because i think being in a riot control squad is pretty fun.

[[GG]Salis De Silver]

Well...I think we are missing the point here totally, its not about free speech, its about respect. We should respect their faith and they should respect ours. The people that published the cartoons knew exactly what they were doing when they published them, its about how many copies they can sell. And the end result is violence, this was what they wanted, free speech... who are they kidding they are has bad as the Muslim extremists in my view, all this does is incites the more moderate Muslims into thinking that maybe the extremists may have a point.

[[GG]Olaf_Rassmussen]

Faith is no excuse

[[GG]Buxford]

salis said:

Well...I think we are missing the point here totally, its not about free speech, its about respect. We should respect their faith and they should respect ours. The people that published the cartoons knew exactly what they were doing when they published them, its about how many copies they can sell. And the end result is violence, this was what they wanted, free speech... who are they kidding they are has bad as the Muslim extremists in my view, all this does is incites the more moderate Muslims into thinking that maybe the extremists may have a point.

It's all about free speech; there are many cartoons that poke fun at Jews and Christians. The key difference here is that we don't go burning flags, bombing buildings, and killing people over a simple cartoon. Every one knows these cartoons are insulting, no ones denying that. But to limit free speech because the Muslim world doesn't like it is quite frankly stupid, and a complete double standard.

I believe it was Voltaire who said "I may disagree with what you say, but I will support to the death your right to say it." I tend to agree: to limit free speech is totalitarianism at its finest.

[[GG]Salis De Silver]

That is the point, there are insulting so why do it?

"I may disagree with what you say, but I will support to the death your right to say it." is flawed.

We need to get away from this liberal bullshite and deal with the real issues.

[[GG]SirDabrowski]

I highly doubt that Danish editor was chanting, "Burn my house, threaten my family, kill my people!" when he published that piece.

Oh, and to further my point:

www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/19/indonesia.cartoons.ap/index.html

www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/02/18/cartoon.roundup/index.html

As Olof said, Faith is no excuse. You should have more common sense then to become so enraged over cartoons. It's stopped being an issue of 'They insulted us!' to an issue of, 'Hey, I can burn cars and buildings now!'

And, kudos to Pakistan: www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/19/pakistan.cartoons/index.html

If the US is on a mission to destroy Islam, then why in the Hell are these people burning and attacking our buildings? Mohammed said to treat Christians fairly and kindly as they were 'People of the Book' ( New Testament ), yet these ****heads seem to forget those teachings of Mohammed that conflict with their political agendas.

[[GG]Buxford]

salis said:

That is the point, there are insulting so why do it?

"I may disagree with what you say, but I will support to the death your right to say it." is flawed.

We need to get away from this liberal bullshitee and deal with the real issues.

So are you saying freedom is bullshite?

[[GG]Salis De Silver]

Using the isuue of Freedom of speech to justfy insulting 'ANY' faith is bullshite.

[[GG]SirDabrowski]

Bux isn't justifying it. He's simply saying they can do that. Just as the KKK can rail off their dumbass opinions over here. Just because they can do it doesn't mean we have to like it. It's not justifying it, it's simply giving the minority a right to an opinion.

[[GG] Lord Ashram]

Actually Salis I disagree... people should be free to say whatever they want about whoever they want. Many great things were done by using freedom of speech to speak out in ways that would at the time be considered "offensive..." For example, that American blacks should be allowed to vote, or that women should be allowed to vote.

It is the other peoples responsibility to ignore it if they dont like it, or to use THEIR freedom to start a dialogue. It is NOT appropriate to start blowing shiteee up and threatening people. I was a Religious Studies major in undergraduate, with an intense focus on Islamic Studies, and know a bit about the religion. Unfortunately at this point ridiculous politics and scummy people have turned to using Islam, which is a very lovely and peaceful religion, for political means, and are glorifying the most questionable, and indeed least able to be supported by the Quran, aspects of Islam to further their means.

Personally I think the response of the Muslim world is really outrageous... especially when you see all of the religiously offensive material that has been published in the middle east aimed towards members of other faith and nationalities. Don't dole it out for years and then complain when you get a taste of it back.

[[GG]Buxford]

salis said:

Using the isuue of Freedom of speech to justfy insulting 'ANY' faith is bullshitee.

I'm not justifying what they said: what they said was indeed insulting. I am however supporting their right to say it. It is impossible to limit free speech, and have freedom at the same time; you take away that, you take away that which we hold the most dear: our freedom to voice our opinion (this is important to Americans, at least). If we forcefully limit the scope of cartoons, where do we draw the line? Why stop at just the abolishing anti-Muslim cartoons? Why not outlaw all religious cartoons insulting Christians and Jews? We could also prohibit the publishing of all articles, essays, and books critisizing the government because someone could deem it "insulting?" Why not ban all movies, documentaries, and cable news too, as they insult PLENTY of people; while we're at it, we could ban all interet access to political websites where someone might get insulted. You see where this is going? Does this make any sense? Is this Democratic? Is this PROTECTING ANYONE? NO, of course not!! If you support the abolishment of these Muslim cartoons, you are in effect supporting fascism. Again, read my Voltaire quote.

[scotaidh]

don't suppose it occured to anyone that Islam is the most importent thing in these peoples lives, the adore their religion, so when it is insulted they become extremely upset.

I someone defaced your girlfriend/wife by pouring a drink over her in a bar, what you gonna do?

Lack of understanding and respect is whats happening right enough. I wouldn't expect anything less than violence for the insult. As Dabrowski says if "if someone hurts your citizens" then your allowed to retaliate, hence the reason Syria and Jourden let the mob do what it likes to the embassies.

I'm afraid i wouldn't like to see Europe act the way Dabrowski suggest, for one we'd be at war with America within a week, and frankly most of Europe is sick of war.

[[GG]Olaf_Rassmussen]

The fact is Middle-east countries goverments have been using these cartoon to get the eyes out of their own problems. Corrupt officials and such, you dont need to be rocket scientist to see that those riots are silently supported by goverments.